“Beating Donald Trump Is Vital”: Mehdi Hasan on Joe Biden Dropping Out, Kamala Harris, Gaza & More

AMY GOODMAN: President Joe Biden announced Sunday he is ending his campaign to seek reelection, in a move upending the presidential race just four months before Election Day. In a letter posted Sunday, Biden wrote he was stepping aside, quote, “in the best interest of my party and the country.”

Biden endorsed his vice president, Kamala Harris, who quickly received the backing of many powerful Democrats but could still face a challenge for the party’s nomination. If elected, Harris would become the first woman to serve as U.S. president. She made history in 2020 when she became the first Black person, first person of South Asian descent and first woman to be elected vice president.

The 81-year-old Biden faced tremendous pressure to drop out following a disastrous debate with Donald Trump that raised questions about his physical and mental health, as well as his ability to beat Trump. Biden announced the decision while at his beach home in Delaware, where he has been isolating after testing positive for COVID. Biden’s decision makes Trump, who is 78 years old, the oldest presidential nominee in U.S. history.

Questions about Biden’s candidacy have been growing since at least last year. The activist group RootsAction launched a campaign called Don’t Run Joe 20 months ago. During the primary season, more than a half-million voters chose “uncommitted” instead of Biden to protest his support for Israel’s war on Gaza.

Biden’s decision comes just four weeks before the Democratic National Convention begins in Chicago August 19th, though the DNC has considered holding a virtual roll call vote to lock in a nominee before the convention. Democracy Now! will be at the convention, expanding our coverage to two hours daily in Chicago. The DNC rules committee will meet on Wednesday. It will be a public meeting that is live-streamed on YouTube. The last open Democratic convention took place in 1968 in Chicago after Lyndon Johnson decided not to seek reelection over increasing protest of his support for the War in Vietnam.

On Sunday, Kamala Harris wrote, quote, “I am honored to have the President’s endorsement and my intention is to earn and win this nomination.”

We begin our coverage today in Washington, D.C., with Mehdi Hasan, journalist, author and editor-in-chief and CEO of the new media company Zeteo.

Mehdi, welcome back to Democracy Now! Your response to these historic developments over the weekend?

MEHDI HASAN: Thanks, Amy.

We really are living through history, aren’t we? This is an insane moment in time, where last Saturday the former president of the United States almost got assassinated and this Sunday the current president says, “You know what? I’m not going to run for reelection. I’m going to do an LBJ.” And it’s just too much to cover for those of us in the media business.

But, look, this is actually a big, big moment for American democracy, not just American political history, because if Donald Trump wins in November, I am one of those people who firmly believes that American democracy is in existential danger. I believe that he will bring forward an authoritarian plan, a fascistic plan. This is a person who’s going to pose a clear and present danger to our rights, our liberties, our Constitution, and therefore, beating Donald Trump, regardless of your politics, regardless of what you think of the Democrats, is actually vital.

Joe Biden was on course to be defeated by Donald Trump, and he took the advice — shall we say, pressure — from his party, from Nancy Pelosi, to actually do the right thing and step aside. His ego, his stubbornness was getting in the way. He had said, “I wasn’t going to quit unless the Almighty tells me to quit.” Well, I guess Nancy Pelosi is now the Almighty, because she led a pretty efficient, effective, ruthless behind-the-scenes lobbying and pressure campaign, which finally got through to the White House. Remember, Amy, on Friday, his campaign manager was going on Morning Joe on MSNBC, saying, “No, no, he’s campaigning next week. There’s no change in plans. He’s still in the race.” Sunday, he says, “You know what? I’m out, and I endorse Kamala Harris.”

And the endorsement of Harris, which came separately to his resignation letter — he puts the resignation out first, Amy. I’m sure you were stunned like a lot of us were when we saw the letter. Hold on, he’s not endorsing Harris. And then, 25 minutes later, whatever, in a separate tweet, he endorses the vice president. This is a huge moment. It’s hard to overstate how huge a moment it is.

AMY GOODMAN: So, you kind of predicted what would happen, Mehdi. Earlier this month, you wrote a piece for The Guardian headlined “Kamala Harris may be our only hope. Biden should step aside and endorse her.” Interestingly, the piece begins, “I have never been a fan of Kamala Harris.” Can you talk about how you came to your position?

MEHDI HASAN: So, very briefly, I criticized Harris a lot in 2019, 2020, when she was trying to run for the Democratic presidential nomination, specifically around her record in California as an attorney general and as a DA. She did some things — and I’ve outlined them in the past for The Intercept, when I was there at the time — to do with convictions and to do with criminal justice reform which I thought were pretty right-wing and pretty unfair, and I think there’s a lot of issues there with that record from a progressive point of view, although she also did some progressive things, too, and I applauded it at the time. But I wasn’t a fan of her campaign. And, you know, to be honest, I was right at the time. Her campaign melted down. She withdrew before a single vote was cast in the primaries. But then she got lucky, I think it’s fair to say, when Joe Biden decided to forgive her for attacking him on the debate stage and made her his running mate.

This time around, you know, we’re in a very different world — right? — four years later. For me, Biden stepping aside was very important, because he clearly wasn’t up to the job of defeating Trump. And I know people talk about open conventions, contested conventions. I just think that’s not going to happen. I don’t think it’s helpful right now. I think there are lots of legal, financial issues with that. And for me, in early July, it was: Get Biden out of the way; there’s a perfectly good candidate who can beat Donald Trump. By the way, her polling — and that was at the beginning of July — it’s gotten better since. Her polling was showing that she was matching Trump. She was doing better than Biden with Trump. She was actually leading with independents, according to a CNN poll.

So, for me, it was a no-brainer. You’ve got a younger, more energetic candidate ready to go in the wings, already on the ticket, already won with you in 2020, might be better on Gaza — we can talk about that — than Joe Biden, although it’s not hard to be better than Biden on Gaza given how bad he’s been, and actually has a good record as a senator, as an attorney general. So, why wouldn’t you go with Kamala Harris, who is also, by the way, a history-making candidate, will bring enthusiasm from the base? And I was right about that. Look at the last few hours, Amy. There’s record-breaking donations to the Democratic Party since she was endorsed by Biden yesterday. She would be the first Black woman president, the first South Asian president, the first woman president.

AMY GOODMAN: I think ActBlue reported something like raising, in a number of hours, $50 million. Now, you just mentioned that perhaps Kamala Harris is better on Gaza. Why don’t you go into her record and what you can discern, as she is the vice president there working with the president?

MEHDI HASAN: So, look, when I say — I just want to be very clear to Democracy Now! viewers and listeners. When I say “better than Biden,” I don’t mean that she’s going to become president and say, “Time for an arms embargo on Israel.” No, she’s not going to make major changes in policy, and that’s a tragedy. People are dying, Amy, even as we speak. The people in Gaza have not stopped being killed just because the media’s attention has moved on. And I think that’s important to say at the outset.

However — right? — with all these things, there are important differences. One of my big criticisms of Biden has not just been his unconditional support for Netanyahu and the sale of 2,000-pound bombs, 500-pound bombs, etc. It’s the rhetoric, right? It’s the idea that he doesn’t even show empathy — the guy who’s known for his empathy — for the Palestinian people, since the beginning. There’s been an erasure of Palestinians. Remember, he put out a statement on the 100 days after October 7th, didn’t mention any Palestinian deaths. Remember, he questioned the Palestinian death toll. And I think that’s a problem.

And Kamala Harris, actually, if you look at the reporting since October the 7th, she was a voice in the administration trying to take a stance which humanized Palestinians a little bit more, tried to criticize Israel a little bit more, was dragged back by the White House. There was a lot of reporting about how the White House was trying to change some of her speeches to make them less critical of Israel. She was calling for a temporary ceasefire, at least, earlier than Joe Biden was. And I spoke to an official in the administration who’s been in the room for some of these conversations. They said, “Look, there’s no doubt Kamala Harris is better on this issue than Joe Biden is.” And I wrote that in The Guardian earlier this month.

And interestingly, Amy, Politico put out a piece last night quoting some of the people who have quit the Biden administration, some of the officials and appointees who have quit in recent months in protest of Biden, and even they’re saying, “We’re cautiously optimistic that she might be better than Biden on this.” And as I say, it’s not hard to be better than Biden on this. But, look, I hope she comes out and says, “Reset, course correction, ceasefire now,” in a way that Biden never really has with his heart.

AMY GOODMAN: I want to turn to a voter in California named Faraz Rizvi, responding to President Biden’s decision.

FARAZ RIZVI: I am glad that Biden stepped down. You know, we’ve been really concerned about his policy towards Palestine and his, you know, full-throated support for Israel and the ongoing genocide against the Palestinians. So, you know, we’re really — I mean, I’m relieved to see another candidate that might not have the same policies and that has, you know, not backed the brutality against the Palestinians. You know, I think there are still a lot of questions on Kamala and what her policy is going to be, but I think, for a lot of voters, you know, a lot of people in my community — I’m Muslim and Pakistani — this has been like the biggest issue, the singular issue that we’ve been paying attention to.

AMY GOODMAN: So, Mehdi Hasan, if you can respond to that California voter?

MEHDI HASAN: I think he makes very good points. Look, we need to keep the pressure up on Kamala Harris, those of us who care about what’s happening in Gaza. As I say, she’s not going to come in and transform American foreign policy. Let’s not be naive or ridiculous. But at the same time, we can, I think, pressure her in a way that we failed to pressure Joe Biden to change his policies on this. I mean, Netanyahu is in town this week, Amy. He’s going to be speaking in Congress. He’s going to be meeting Biden at the White House.

AMY GOODMAN: He’s going to be meeting — 

MEHDI HASAN: The big question — 

AMY GOODMAN: He’s going to be meeting with Kamala Harris. And it’s not clear: Will he be meeting with Biden at the White House, given that Biden is in isolation in Rehoboth?

MEHDI HASAN: Good question. It’s a good question. That was always planned for Monday. I don’t know what the latest is on Biden’s COVID. By the way, hilariously, Donald Trump has been posting over the weekend that Biden faked his COVID to get out of the race. You’ve got to love Trump’s posts.

Look, to respond to the voter, it’s not just California. California at least is a safe blue state. Go to Michigan. I talked to a lot of people in Dearborn and Detroit, Arab Americans, Muslim Americans, young Michigan voters, who are furious about Gaza — the uncommitted movement that came out of Michigan. And the question is: Does putting Kamala Harris at the top of this ticket instead of Joe Biden help the Democrats hold on to Michigan, for example? Do people say, “You know what? Our hate” — you know, the Abandon Biden — there’s a lot of hatred for Joe Biden personally from a lot of these constituencies over Gaza. It was called Abandon Biden. He’s called “Genocide Joe.” Whether you like it or not, the antipathy is very much focused on Biden. And I think just getting him out of the way allows Democrats to say, “All right, look, there’s a possibility of a fresh start.” But that won’t happen unless we keep up the pressure on Kamala Harris, make it clear what she has to do to win back some of those constituencies in order to take a state like Michigan, which is going to be so close and so crucial in November.

AMY GOODMAN: I wanted to return to Congressmember AOC, Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, who went on Instagram Live on Thursday night following former President Trump’s speech at the RNC. She said, quote, “If you think there is consensus among the people who want Joe Biden to leave … that they will support Vice President Harris, you would be mistaken. They’re not going to be fully honest, but I’m going to be honest for them. I’m in these rooms. I see what they say in conversations. … I’m here to tell you that a huge amount of the donor class and a huge amount of these elites and a huge amount of these folks in these rooms that I see that are pushing for President Biden to not be the nominee also are not interested in seeing the vice president being the nominee.” That was AOC before President Biden’s announcement. She had supported Biden staying in, as did Bernie Sanders and a number of members of the Squad, but now threw her endorsement to Kamala Harris. Your thoughts on her saying that people who wanted Biden out were the donor class?

MEHDI HASAN: Amy, it’s a great question. And for the first time in my life, over the last few weeks I found myself rooting for Nancy Pelosi and Adam Schiff over AOC and Bernie Sanders. I had to pinch myself. What kind of weird, bizarro world are we in right now? But, look, I think the Squad, I think Bernie were wrong. I think AOC — I think they were wrong. I have great admiration and respect for Bernie Sanders and for Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez. I think they got this one wrong.

I think there was a — I think there were multiple things going on. I think that they feel Joe Biden is a president they can work with, have managed to get a lot of stuff done with on domestic policy. Who knows what Biden was maybe promising them in the background over the last few weeks as he tried to cling on? Bernie Sanders is personally close to Biden. He’s probably had more access to this White House than any White House in history while he’s been a senator or member of Congress.

And I think they were worried, genuinely worried, about, yes, what would happen once Biden goes. Will there be a civil war? Will Kamala Harris be passed over by the donors? I mean, I think their worries were overstated. Clearly, there are donors who don’t want Kamala Harris. We’re hearing all this nonsense chatter about Joe Manchin, hilariously, throwing his hat in the ring — he ruled that out this morning. Clearly, there are people not happy with Kamala Harris. People, there are many who didn’t want Kamala Harris. As I said, if we were starting from scratch, I wouldn’t be supporting Kamala Harris, either.

But the reality is, look at how the Democratic Party came behind Harris yesterday. I was actually stunned. I was impressed at how quickly everyone followed Joe Biden’s lead, including Adam Schiff and many others. You know, ironically, the one big name who didn’t endorse Kamala Harris yesterday was not the white donor, but the former Black president, Barack Obama, who, interestingly, did not endorse her in his statement. And, of course, we’re still waiting for Nancy Pelosi, to see what she says. I’d be very surprised if she doesn’t come out for Kamala Harris. But the party united behind Harris very quickly, raised a lot of money, as you pointed out. Multiple senators, multiple members of Congress, including now Squad members like Ilhan Omar and AOC and Ayanna Pressley, have all endorsed Harris. It’s actually been fairly smooth, surprisingly smooth and cohesive around Harris.

But I get the initial concerns from the left. I just think if they had carried on with that and if Biden hadn’t stood aside and we had crashed to defeat against Trump, I think that would have been — you know, history would have judged those who clung with Biden to the end. So, I’m glad Biden didn’t listen to Bernie Sanders and did listen to Nancy Pelosi.

AMY GOODMAN: Mehdi Hasan, I want to thank you for being with us, editor-in-chief, founder and CEO of Zeteo.

Next up, should there be an open convention? We put the question to LaTosha Brown of Black Voters Matter and Jim Zogby, longtime member of the Democratic National Committee. Stay with us.