Alex Gibney on “The Bibi Files,” Netanyahu’s Corruption Case & How Endless War Keeps Him in Power

AMY GOODMAN: This is Democracy Now!, democracynow.org, The War and Peace Report. I’m Amy Goodman.

The official death toll in Gaza has topped 45,000. Meanwhile, Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu is fighting a different battle inside Israeli courts. The first sitting Israeli prime minister to face criminal charges, he’s finally taking the stand at his long-running corruption trial. The case has gone on for years. He’s charged with fraud, breach of trust, accepting bribes in three separate cases.

We turn now to an extraordinary new documentary that offers an in-depth look into the charges against Netanyahu, featuring leaked footage of police interrogations of Netanyahu himself, his wife Sara and those accused of bribing him. This is the trailer to The Bibi Files.

INTERROGATOR: [translated] Our first question for you is whether you or any of your family members have received any gifts or favors from wealthy businessmen in the last decade.

PRIME MINISTER BENJAMIN NETANYAHU: [translated] This is preposterous and insane. You’re trying to incriminate the prime minister on nonsense.

RAVIV DRUCKER: In this case, the facts are really simple. The prime minister and his wife are getting gifts.

PRIME MINISTER BENJAMIN NETANYAHU: [translated] It’s a total lie!

RAVIV DRUCKER: And on the other side, Netanyahu did favors.

BENEFACTOR: [translated] We must find a way to reward him.

INTERROGATOR: [translated] What do you need to reward the prime minister for?

NIMROD NOVIK: Government officials are not allowed to take gifts. This is corruption.

RAVIV DRUCKER: The police, they investigated everybody.

BENEFACTOR: [translated] If this comes out, I’m dead.

INTERROGATOR: What did you get?

SARA NETANYAHU: Champagne and cigars. [translated] Necklaces, rings.

NIR HEFETZ: Sara Netanyahu is very important. Both of them never surrendered, never compromised.

SARA NETANYAHU: [translated] My husband is the strongest prime minister we’ve ever had.

NIR HEFETZ: They start to believe that they are untouchable.

PRIME MINISTER BENJAMIN NETANYAHU: [translated] Without shame! Saying things that didn’t happen!

AMI AYALON: After the catastrophe of the 7th of October, the war became another instrument to stay in power.

NIMROD NOVIK: When people serve for too long, it gets into their head.

RAVIV DRUCKER: The indictment made him dependent on the extreme right in Israel. He is now captive to their whims.

PRIME MINISTER BENJAMIN NETANYAHU: [translated] This is nonsense.

RAVIV DRUCKER: Put all Israel in turmoil.

NIMROD NOVIK: Netanyahu is the architect of chaos.

AMI AYALON: He survived in a state of war. He survived in a state of instability. He’s not a crackpot. He tried to kill the system. Nobody is above the law.

PRIME MINISTER BENJAMIN NETANYAHU: [translated] Do you remember that line from The Godfather? [in English] “Keep your friends close. Keep your enemies closer.”

AMY GOODMAN: That’s the trailer for The Bibi Files, leaked secret footage of Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu. The new documentary The Bibi Files is directed by Alexis Bloom and produced by Alex Gibney. The Bibi Files cannot be legally distributed in Israel due to privacy laws.

For more, we’re joined by filmmaker Alex Gibney. In 2008, he won an Oscar for his film Taxi to the Dark Side about an Afghan man who was tortured in prison at Bagram.

Thanks so much for being with us again, Alex. I went to see this film the other night at the theater. This is powerful. Explain why in this trailer we can’t see Netanyahu’s face in these deposition tapes. And how did you get these deposition tapes, when he, his wife, his son Yair and others are being questioned by police?

ALEX GIBNEY: OK, I’ll answer the — hi, Amy.

AMY GOODMAN: Hi.

ALEX GIBNEY: I’ll answer the questions in reverse. I was leaked these tapes. They’re interrogation videotapes done by the police that were a precursor to the indictment of Netanyahu on corruption charges. And in the tapes, you can see Netanyahu, his wife Sara, his son Yair and many of the people who attempted to bribe Netanyahu. They were — I thought they were explosive and very important. This, by the way, was before 10/7 or the war on Gaza. This when there was a big crisis over the judicial reform attempts by Netanyahu, which, of course, were done in part so he could elude any consequence from, you know, impending bribery charges.

But the key thing to understand about distribution in Israel is, when I got these leaked tapes, I made a promise to the source that I would not distribute the film in Israel, because the source could go to prison. There are privacy laws that make it mandatory that if you are photographed as part of an official proceeding — i.e. a police interrogation — you can’t cause those videotapes to be released, so — unless you get the permission of Netanyahu and Sara, etc., which wasn’t going to happen. So, anyway, that is the occasion of why these things can’t be — this film can’t be released and why we had to, you know, black-bar the trailer in order so that the trailer wouldn’t be freely visible — I couldn’t cause the trailer to be freely visible in Israel. Though I should say that it’s being widely pirated there.

AMY GOODMAN: So, Netanyahu is going after you?

ALEX GIBNEY: Netanyahu, as soon as it was announced that we were going to premiere at the Toronto Film Festival, he went to an Israeli court and tried to stop the screening in Toronto. Now, how that was going to happen, I don’t know. But in any event, it was denied. But he certainly tried to stop us. And I understand the Netanyahu administration, through a number of mechanisms, are trying very hard to go after a guy named Raviv Drucker, who’s one of the producers of the film and is a longtime Israeli journalist who has an expertise in this kind of corruption, has been the bane of a number of prime ministers, but particularly Netanyahu.

AMY GOODMAN: Let’s go to another clip from The Bibi Files. It begins with Ami Ayalon, the former head of Israel’s internal security service, Shin Bet.

AMI AYALON: And after the catastrophe of the 7th of October, the war became another instrument to stay in power. He survived in a state of war. He survived in a state of instability. He survived when we fight each other. He survived when our enemies fight each other.

GILI SCHWARTZ: A forever war is beneficial to Netanyahu. This makes people feel like they are always in danger, like they always need him. There is always some huge threat. I think that that helps him remain prime minister.

AMY GOODMAN: That last voice, the young Israeli woman, Gili Schwartz, is from Kibbutz Be’eri, where more than a hundred people were killed on October 7th last year. Alex, if you can elaborate on what they are saying? I mean, as we speak, Netanyahu is in court in Israel right now. What this means? They say he wants to wage wider war because, otherwise, he’s no longer going to be protected by the prime ministership, by being prime minister.

ALEX GIBNEY: That’s right. I mean, I think, strictly speaking, this is a film about corruption. And it starts with petty corruption, being bribed with gifts and cigars, champagne, jewelry. But then, the ultimate corruption is how he’s tried to elude a reckoning for his misdeeds, and in so doing, he wraps himself in the mantle of prime minister and then wages endless war. Now, I can’t think of really anything more corrupt than somebody who is administering the killing of women and children in order to be able to stay in power. But that is what they are alleging, and that is what the film is about.

AMY GOODMAN: Let’s go to another clip from The Bibi Files. This one begins with Prime Minister Netanyahu addressing the U.S. Congress this past July.

PRIME MINISTER BENJAMIN NETANYAHU: Together, we shall defend our common civilization. Together, we shall secure a brilliant future for both our nations.

NIMROD NOVIK: Well, I would say that, tragically, the Americans don’t know how to call him out. There was no plan for ending the war of Gaza, bringing the hostages home and changing dynamics in the region. And things only got worse. Netanyahu is the architect of chaos. And as we speak, when all eyes are on the front in Gaza and the front in Lebanon, he is implementing his plan in the West Bank with the extreme right. He may create a situation where it’s irreversible.

AMY GOODMAN: And that’s Nimrod Novik, former adviser to Shimon Peres, in The Bibi Files, the documentary produced by Alex Gibney, who’s with us now. So, talk about how this trial plays out right now. I think most people in the United States aren’t even aware. I mean, you have the horror in Gaza. You have what’s now taking place in Syria, what’s happening in Lebanon. Explain how this all fits in.

ALEX GIBNEY: Well, this is a trial that’s been going on for four years. And Netanyahu has been trying to elude a reckoning related to these charges for that much time. And what he constantly does is to wrap himself in the mantle of leadership. And so, what better way to do that? And this is a tried and true political formula, as grisly and as grotesque as it is, is to wage war, is to continue to use weapons and say, “We’re in danger of being annihilated, so we must strike back.” But, I mean, the destruction that’s going on in Gaza, for example, is a kind of wanton destruction at this point that is just beyond any kind of moral reckoning. And, you know, I think that also the United States bears some responsibility for this. That’s why we included those clips of him in the Congress. You know, we supply Israel with so much aid and so much — 

AMY GOODMAN: And to be clear, Sara, his wife, and when she’s being questioned, she yells at the police and says, “Do you know how he’s treated in the United States when he addresses a joint session of Congress?” Alex Gibney, we’re going to have to leave it there, Academy Award-winning filmmaker and producer of The Bibi Files. His next film is about Luigi Mangione and the shooting of the UnitedHealthcare CEO. I’m Amy Goodman. Happy birthday, Jeff Stauch!