Aid Worker in Gaza: “To Say There’s Not an Incursion in Rafah Right Now Is Patently False”

NERMEEN SHAIKH: Tens of thousands of displaced Palestinians are fleeing Rafah as Israeli airstrikes and shelling hammer the eastern part of the city. Fuel, food, medicine and other supplies have been cut off following Israel’s seizure and closure of the Rafah border crossing with Egypt. The main hospital in the area has also been shut down. The World Food Programme cannot reach its food warehouse near the Rafah crossing, and aid groups are warning they have only a few days of fuel remaining before humanitarian operations and all hospitals in Gaza begin to shut down.

Since Monday, the U.N. estimates some 80,000 Palestinians have been displaced from Rafah, where over 1.4 million people have sought refuge. Families uprooted multiple times over the past seven months have nowhere to go. Tent camps in some parts of Rafah have now vanished, springing up again further north along main roads in Deir al-Balah and Khan Younis. Over the past 24 hours, more than 60 Palestinians were killed across Gaza, many of them in Rafah. The death toll in Gaza over the past seven months is nearly 35,000, with more than 78,500 wounded.

AMY GOODMAN: For more, we go to Rafah, where we’re joined by Dorotea Gucciardo. She’s the director of development of Glia Project, currently on a medical mission in Gaza, joining us via video stream instead of at a live shot outside the Kuwaiti Hospital in Rafah, because there’s bombing and gunfire in the area, making it dangerous to move.

We thank you so much, Dorotea, for joining us. Can you explain what’s happening in Rafah right now? I think there is the misconception that unless a full-scale ground invasion happens, there’s very little going on. But over the last, what, 24 hours, about 60 people in Gaza have died, overwhelmingly in Rafah.

DOROTEA GUCCIARDO: Hi, Amy. Thank you for having me. I’m sorry, you cut out just a little bit there. The internet here is not so good.

The situation on the ground is dire. Everyone here is quite afraid. To say that there’s not an incursion in Rafah right now is patently false. Throughout this entire day, I have heard bombs, explosions, I have heard heavy machine gun fire, and it seems to be creeping closer and closer to where we are in central Rafah.

NERMEEN SHAIKH: And, Dorotea, if you could describe what the situation is in hospitals? You were earlier this week in the last maternity hospital in Gaza, Emirati Hospital. What did you see? If you could describe the situation, the health situation for people in Rafah?

DOROTEA GUCCIARDO: Yeah, the situation in the hospitals is tense. People are really anxious. Patients are worried about where they’re going to be able to access healthcare, because as the incursion becomes closer and the threat of the Israeli army approaching the hospitals becomes more real, patients are afraid to go to the hospitals. Doctors themselves are —

AMY GOODMAN: Dorretea Gucciardo has —

DOROTEA GUCCIARDO: There is —

AMY GOODMAN: Go ahead. Go ahead, Dorotea.

DOROTEA GUCCIARDO: Sorry.

AMY GOODMAN: Occasionally you freeze, but just keep going.

DOROTEA GUCCIARDO: OK.

AMY GOODMAN: I mean, this is incredible that we’re able to speak to you there.

DOROTEA GUCCIARDO: Thank you. The healthcare providers are afraid to come into work. They are moving their families from east Rafah to west Rafah, to the coast. So, access to healthcare providers is lessening as the threat of invasion looms. Twenty years of blockade in the Gaza Strip means that the healthcare sector was already low-resourced. This is exacerbated by this depraved war that Palestinians have been living through for the past seven months.

NERMEEN SHAIKH: And what are the medical supplies that people are working with? I mean, we’ve just heard that there’s very little fuel remaining and there isn’t much time before all hospitals in Gaza, of course, including in Rafah, begin to shut down. And I assume the situation in Rafah is worse. If you could explain what you know of what’s happening in hospitals elsewhere and what the threats to hospitals in Rafah in particular are now? For how long can they continue to operate even minimally?

DOROTEA GUCCIARDO: Even minimally, if no fuel comes in, we’re looking at a maximum of three days, three days of fuel to supply these hospitals to maintain any level of healthcare. The situation is beyond dire. There were plans — there are ongoing plans to try to bring Nasser Hospital back into working condition. You’ll recall that Nasser was besieged by the Israelis a few times. This is where the mass graves were uncovered. It is not ready yet. So, if we take a look at the NICU in particular, it has five incubators, and it has no staff. There’s no capacity to bring any children that are in the hospital, in Emirati in Rafah, to Nasser for any kind of care. It’s just not functional yet. So, it’s devastating.

AMY GOODMAN: So, you’re talking about fuel. There’s also, of course, medical equipment, food that’s not getting in. And what about workers, healthcare workers — we’ve interviewed so many doctors who’ve gone into Gaza to help — if the border area is closed, with the Israeli military moving in and seizing control of the Gaza side of the Rafah border?

DOROTEA GUCCIARDO: So, we have been entering through the Rafah border since early January, all of the medical teams that were coming in to work in the hospitals. Those delegations brought with them medical supplies, medicine, equipment, anything that they would need to perform their duties, anything that we could do to plug the holes in the sinking ship. It was the most reliable way to get anything inside of Gaza, and that has been completely cut off. No humanitarian workers can come in. No additional aid is coming in. And, in fact, no humanitarian workers can go out. And that’s also problematic, because people are burning out, and we need to be able to replenish our support.

NERMEEN SHAIKH: And, Dorotea, as we mentioned earlier, you were to join us outside the Kuwaiti Hospital, where we had an AP live shot set up, but you weren’t able to get there because of bombing and gunfire. What’s the situation outside other hospitals? And is Kuwaiti Hospital functioning at all? And if so, at what level? How are people able to — medical personnel able to get in and out, if that’s the situation, if it’s so risky and dangerous in that area?

DOROTEA GUCCIARDO: So, you did cut out just a little bit, but I’m assuming you’re asking how we’re moving when the situation is so volatile. We are moving on an emergent need basis. So, the hospitals absolutely require assistance in terms of staffing. We’ve made the decision to continue staffing these hospitals that we are — that we have been working with, because our presence there gives them some measure of encouragement and some measure of hope. And so we’re continuing to supply whatever services we can, while we can, while at the same time monitoring the situation. So, we’re literally taking it hour by hour.

NERMEEN SHAIKH: And is it at all possible now, Dorotea, for wounded patients to go anywhere, wounded patients in Rafah to go anywhere for better, I suppose, medical treatment?

DOROTEA GUCCIARDO: Their only options are to go up toward Khan Younis, where Nasser Hospital, European Hospital and Al-Aqsa Hospital are located. These are understaffed, overwhelmed. Nasser is nonfunctional.

And let’s not forget the patients that are requiring lifesaving surgeries that would require them to be evacuated out of Gaza. They cannot leave. Two days ago, I watched a baby die that had swelling around its brain. It required a particular kind of surgery that simply could not be done here in Gaza. And the request couldn’t be fulfilled because the Israelis have taken the Rafah crossing.

AMY GOODMAN: And what about the stream of humanity, Palestinians who are being told they have to leave areas of Rafah right now? Where are they going? Do you see people on the move for, what, the first, the second, the third, the fourth time, as they already came to Rafah and are already displaced?

DOROTEA GUCCIARDO: Sorry, you cut out just a little bit there. Yes, we’re seeing a mass displacement of people. This is a population that has been, on average, displaced at least three times. And to my knowledge, that’s the first time this has ever happened anywhere in the world. The people in east Rafah are trying to move, but do consider that many of them can’t — they can’t afford it. With fuel being so expensive, it’s difficult for them to afford a vehicle to even bring their belongings. So, you’re seeing some in donkey carts. You’re seeing people moving with things in hand, because they just have no other way of shifting from where they are into a supposed safe zone, because, let’s make it very clear, there is no safe zone in Gaza. Every single area of Gaza is subject to attack.

AMY GOODMAN: Dorotea Gucciardo, we thank you so much for being with us. We are just very relieved we could speak to you and that you’re OK, director of development of Glia Project, currently on a medical mission in Gaza, speaking to us from Rafah.

Coming up, we’ll be joined by, well, the now Pulitzer Prize-winning journalist Nathan Thrall. His book, A Day in the Life of Abed Salama: Anatomy of a Jerusalem Tragedy. He’s usually in Jerusalem. Today he’ll join us from Berlin, Germany. Stay with us.

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AMY GOODMAN: “Fortunately Gone” by The Breeders, engineered by Steve Albini. The seminal musician and recording engineer died Tuesday at the age of 61 of a heart attack.