From Decriminalization to Border Crackdown, Harris Defends Hard-Line Shift in 1st Interview as Nominee

AMY GOODMAN: This is Democracy Now!, democracynow.org, “War, Peace and the Presidency.” I’m Amy Goodman.

Vice President Kamala Harris Thursday sat down for her first major television interview since President Biden dropped out of the race five weeks ago and she rose to the top of the ticket. With her running mate, Minnesota Governor Tim Walz, sitting by her side, Harris was interviewed, as he was, by CNN’s Dana Bash in a restaurant in Georgia as Kamala Harris campaigned with Walz through the swing state.

The 27-minute interview marked Harris’s most extended unscripted appearance as the Democratic presidential nominee. She was asked about some of her changes in policy positions on issues including decriminalizing border crossings and banning fracking. She also faced questions on the economy, U.S. weapons shipments to Israel in its war on Gaza, and more. For the most part, the vice president showed little substantive difference in policy from President Biden. The New York Times summed up the interview saying Harris handled it, quote, “without causing herself political harm or providing herself a significant boost,” unquote.

Today, we’ll look at Kamala Harris’s policy positions with a roundtable of guests on immigration, Israel-Palestine, the economy and climate change. We’ll begin on immigration and the border. This is CNN’s Dana Bash questioning Vice President Harris last night.

DANA BASH: Another issue, big one, is immigration. As vice president, you were tasked with addressing the root causes of migration in southern countries and —

VICE PRESIDENT KAMALA HARRIS: Northern part of Central America.

DANA BASH: The northern part of —

VICE PRESIDENT KAMALA HARRIS: Yeah.

DANA BASH: — of Central America that deals with, that affects the southern border of the U.S. During the Biden-Harris administration, there were record numbers of illegal border crossings. Why did the Biden-Harris administration wait three-and-a-half years to implement sweeping asylum restrictions?

VICE PRESIDENT KAMALA HARRIS: Well, first of all, the root causes work that I did as vice president, that I was asked to do by the president, has actually resulted in a number of benefits, including historic investments by American businesses in that region. The number of immigrants coming from that region has actually reduced since we began that work.

But I will say this, that Joe Biden and I and our administration worked with members of the United States Congress on an immigration issue that is very significant to the American people and to our security, which is the border. And through bipartisan work, including some of the most conservative members of the United States Congress, a bill was crafted, which we supported, which I support.

And Donald Trump got word of this bill, that would have contributed to securing our border. And because he believes that it would not have helped him politically, he told his folks in Congress, “Don’t put it forward.” He killed the bill, a border security bill that would have put 1,500 more agents on the border. And let me tell you something: The Border Patrol endorsed the bill. And I’m sure —

DANA BASH: I remember that.

VICE PRESIDENT KAMALA HARRIS: And I’m sure, in large part, because they knew they were working around the clock, and 1,500 more agents would help them. That bill would have allowed us to increase seizures of fentanyl. Ask any community in America that has been devastated by fentanyl what passing that bill would have done to address their concern and the pain that they’ve experienced.

DANA BASH: So, you would — so, you would push that legislation again? I just want to ask about —

VICE PRESIDENT KAMALA HARRIS: Not only push it. I will make sure that it comes to my desk, and I would sign it.

DANA BASH: Just one other question about something that you said in 2019 when you first ran. There was a debate. You raised your hand when asked whether or not the border should be decriminalized. Do you still believe that?

VICE PRESIDENT KAMALA HARRIS: I believe there should be consequence. We have laws that have to be followed and enforced that address and deal with people who cross our border illegally, and there should be consequence. And let’s be clear: In this race, I’m the only person who has prosecuted transnational criminal organizations who traffic in guns, drugs and human beings. I’m the only person in this race who actually served a border state as attorney general to enforce our laws. And I would enforce our laws as president going forward. I recognize the problem.

AMY GOODMAN: An excerpt of Vice President Kamala Harris being questioned by CNN’s Dana Bash last night in a restaurant in Savannah, Georgia, where she and Governor Walz were campaigning. It was her first major television interview since becoming the Democratic presidential nominee.

For more, we begin our roundtable discussion with Erika Andiola, longtime immigration activist, communications director for the Young Center, joining us from Phoenix, Arizona.

Erika, welcome back to Democracy Now! Can you respond to what the vice president did and didn’t say?

ERIKA ANDIOLA: Yeah. You know, it’s just disheartening and really disappointing to see that immigration has become, at least for the Harris campaign, for Kamala Harris herself, has become about security, about criminality, when in reality immigration is so much more than that. And Democrats used to talk about it. They used to talk about how they were going to — you know, back in the Obama administration, that they were going to pass an immigration bill that would provide a path to citizenship for people, that would fix the immigration system so that there were paths for people to be able to migrate without having to go to the border and make this dangerous journey. And now it has become about criminality, about drugs.

And in this interview, she really accepted that and went along with these Republican talking points, that now truly have become Democrat talking points. And it’s just not — just disappointing to me, but it’s also dangerous, because it really causes for people to continue to think about immigrants as — you know, as a danger to this country. And we have seen what that has caused, not just on policy, but also on how people are now treating our communities.

AMY GOODMAN: So, talk about — well, if you were running for president, what are the humanizing ways you would talk about immigration and new laws that are needed, what exactly comprehensive immigration reform would look like? And also talk about this bill that the Democrats repeatedly attacked Trump on, the one that was really crafted by a conservative Democratic and Republican group in the Senate. It was supported by the Republicans, as you said, and, ultimately, Trump said, “Do not pass this,” because it will give, at the time, Biden a win, that he didn’t want. Of course, now Harris is the presidential candidate.

ERIKA ANDIOLA: Yeah. I’m going to start with the bill that she and many other Democrats have continuously talked about. It was talked about in the Democratic convention, as well, over and over again. This is the border security bill, which, honestly, it really is an anti-immigrant bill, that was put together, yes, by both Democrats and Republicans, but what it focuses on is really dismantling asylum, instead of figuring out how can we provide, how can we figure out ways in which people can migrate to the U.S. in ways that are safe — right? — that are welcoming and that don’t put people in danger. Instead of that, it’s really making sure that asylum is denied — right? — more and more for people. And not only that, it’s expanding detention. I mean, we have seen what detention looks like — right? — how immigrants have been incarcerated and really imprisoned for so long. It will also start again family detention centers, right? We have fought against family detention centers for so long because children do not belong in prisons. Children do not belong in these places. Yet this bill would do that. And they’re not really talking about what that bill would do to cause more harm to the immigrant community.

What I would talk about is what the Democrats have promised for years — right? — which is providing also a path to citizenship for millions of undocumented people who are now, really, like myself — well, I’m not undocumented anymore, but my family is. And what we have provided to this country for so many years is something that is valuable to this nation, that immigrants have provided for many decades. And I wish that the senator — or, I’m sorry, the vice president would speak about this issue as she was doing it as a senator from California, because she knows about the issue. But, again, they are accepting these talking points that Republicans have used, and now she decides to use it for herself, which is, again, disappointing. And I hope that they change that tune, because it is dangerous for the community, for our community in this country.

AMY GOODMAN: I wanted to ask you about what happened this week. Biden immigration program Keeping American Families Together was blocked by Texas Attorney General Ken Paxton and Project 2025 allies, including key family separation figure Stephen Miller, a key figure who continues to be at Trump’s side.

ERIKA ANDIOLA: Yes. It is, unfortunately, something that we were celebrating just last week, and we were also hoping that the Harris campaign was really talking about this. It’s something that the Biden administration did that was actually good for this country, but also that was popular with voters — right? — providing a path to citizenship, really, to the spouses of citizens, so people who are American citizens.

And unfortunately, what happened this week is that because of this lawsuit that came from Texas, people can still apply; unfortunately, they will not be able to be processed. And so, we are going to have to see how this thing plays out in the courts. Just like DACA — right? — a lot of people are waiting to see what happens, so that they can have some hope on what’s going to happen with their status. But, you know, this is the kind of thing that we need to do permanently in Congress to ensure that courts are not continuing to come and dismantling these programs that are actually going to be helping family members of American citizens in this country. And, you know, we’re going to continue to monitor this, but for now we’re making sure that people know that they can still apply, but, unfortunately, their applications are not going to be processed until things change in court.

AMY GOODMAN: And you also have this Ken Paxton, who himself is serving community service to avoid a securities fraud criminal trial and also went through, separately, an impeachment trial in the Republican-controlled democratic state Senate in Texas, actually raiding the homes of LULAC members, the oldest Latino civil rights organization in this country in Texas.

ERIKA ANDIOLA: They are doing everything that they have promised to do for so many years. I mean, I’m from Arizona. I live in Arizona. I have seen this. I have seen this anti-immigrant playbook. Texas if following suit. Texas has been doing everything in their power to try to scare immigrants out of the state, and eventually out of the country.

And there is a vibrant movement there that is pushing back, but we need the federal government to change. We need the Democrats to step in and really change the narrative — right? — change the narrative and also change policies, to make sure that in the future we don’t continue to have actors like people in Texas, like Paxton, like Abbott, all these folks who are going to continue to try to hurt our people, to scare our people away. And at the end of the day, it’s human suffering that I’m worried about.

AMY GOODMAN: Erika Andiola is a longtime immigration activist.