“They Want Palestine Empty”: Artist in Jenin Blasts U.S. Support for Israel Amid West Bank Assault

AMY GOODMAN: This is Democracy Now!, democracynow.org, The War and Peace Report. I’m Amy Goodman, with Nermeen Shaikh.

NERMEEN SHAIKH: We turn now from Gaza to the occupied West Bank, where Israel has launched its largest military operation in over two decades, raiding four cities and refugee camps in the north simultaneously with hundreds of soldiers backed by armored vehicles, bulldozers, fighter jets and drones. At least 18 Palestinians have been killed and 30 wounded.

On Wednesday, the U.N. Secretary-General António Guterres called on Israel to immediately end its military operation and strongly condemned the loss of lives, including that of children.

Meanwhile, three leading Palestinian human rights groups issued a joint statement warning, quote, “of even more escalated violence in the West Bank, with the employment of tactics that mirror those used in Israel’s genocidal campaign in Gaza, particularly attacks on hospitals and healthcare facilities, and the use of excessive and indiscriminate force.”

AMY GOODMAN: In Jenin, Israeli forces have surrounded the city, blocking exit and entry points and access to hospitals and ripping up infrastructure in the Jenin refugee camp. Jenin has been the target of frequent raids by Israeli forces, but this latest military operation is the largest since the Second Intifada two decades ago, when Jenin witnessed some of the worst violence of that period after Israeli forces invaded it in 2002, laid siege to the refugee camp, killing dozens of civilians, destroying hundreds of homes, leaving a quarter of the population homeless.

We go now to Jenin, where we’re joined by Ahmed Tobasi, artistic director at the Freedom Theatre in the Jenin refugee camp.

Welcome to Democracy Now! Ahmed, describe the scene in Jenin right now.

AHMED TOBASI: Thank you, Amy, for having me.

I mean, the scene, it’s the same again and again. But as I said before, the Israelis keeping surprising us even the way they do the invasions. To be honest, I am calling my sisters around, some friends, and they are very scared. We, all of us, very scared. We know there is something different in this invasion. The way they start the invasion, the way they’re doing it now, it’s really scary. People don’t know what’s going to happen.

It looked like it’s going to be a bit more longer invasion than others. We are surprised of the number of the soldiers, the vehicles that keep coming to the city. The camp now having sometimes electricity, sometimes not. For sure, the internet is not there. We try to use the 3Gs, and not totally always good. But yeah, it’s a fear atmosphere where everybody is waiting.

And, you know, the scenes from Gaza, what happened to Gaza, the people in the camp are really afraid that’s going to happen to them, because it’s obvious that Israel is punishing the people, punishing the civilians. In the camp, all camp is surrounded with army. All of the entrances are closed. They already bulldozed all the streets, all the alleyways in the camp. And even the bulldozing is really deep. That mean no cars, no ambulances can go inside.

And many people tried to evacuate the camp. But, for sure, it’s very dangerous, because if you are a man above 15 or 14, you could be shot if you are moving or try to sneaking out from the camp. Only maybe kids or some women, if they are courage enough to leave, to know what’s going on outside the house, to leave the camp. But no one allowed to move.

People are afraid of having no food now for one week, because, you know, they didn’t prepare themselves for the invasion. They didn’t know which kind of the invasion is this. And, you know, the Israelis do not announce what they’re going to do exactly. So, many people are really afraid for the kids having no food.

So, yes, you hear the drones very close, the vehicles all around, the bombing by time to time. It’s, again, the scene repeating itself again and again. And we don’t know, like, what is the end, how long, what we should do. And it’s, obviously, the Israelis want to tell the communities, the civilians of these areas, “You have only two choices: You die here, or you leave, are displaced to other country.” And that’s what is — we’re still waiting what’s going to happen in the next days.

NERMEEN SHAIKH: So, Ahmed, if you could put this latest military operation in the context of the ongoing assault on Gaza, on the one hand, and also the situation that’s been developing in the West Bank, both with the increasing violence over the last 10 months since the Israeli assault on Gaza, as well as the exponential increase in the number of Israeli settlements there?

AHMED TOBASI: Yes, I mean, also, at the same time, I hope American language and American, let’s say, journalism starts using the definition in a right way. It is not violence. It’s a genocide from the Israeli army against the Palestinian people. It’s not a conflict. It’s a genocide, a war, ethnic cleansing, from the Israeli military to the Palestinian civilians.

And yes, it’s, to be honest, from 100,000 of settlers to 850,000 in West Bank. West Bank is not anymore West Bank. It’s a little fragment, from Palestinian communities living there and there, and all the connection, all the network, the streets, all controlled by the settlers.

I promise you, I experienced a death threat. One time, I went out trying to go back from Ramallah to Jenin. It’s not even late. It’s the evening. And suddenly we find ourselves surrounded by settlers who really clearly want to kill you. And the last second, we just run with the car. And if we just stopped, they are ready to kill you. They are attacking everywhere. They are putting fire in the houses of the people. They’re shooting. Now they have guns, officially permitted guns from the Israeli government being given to the settlers to shoot Palestinians in very easy cold blood.

So, we’re not facing only army. We’re facing crazy settlers, groups of crazy people who just want to kill more and more. And the idea is clear. They want to empty West Bank from Palestinians. Guys, what is happening in Gaza, what is happening in West Bank, we say it again and again, this was planned from 80 years, and the Israelis have the time to work on it slowly to displace Palestinians in Palestine. They want Palestine empty from Palestinians, and that’s the only plan. And they will not relax. They will not stop until this happens, or, inshallah, it would be a victory for Palestinians, and they will get defeated.

AMY GOODMAN: Ahmed Tobasi, there have been more than 10,000 Palestinians on the West Bank arrested since October 7th. We have brought out reports from CNN to Human Rights Watch to Haaretz to Addameer of prisoners who haven’t been charged being sexually abused, being tortured. I’m wondering if you can talk about the effect of this level of imprisonment. And particularly this past December, the Israeli forces raided the offices of your theater, of the Jenin Freedom Theatre. Producer Mustafa Sheta was detained and sentenced to six months. Have you heard from him? Has he seen a lawyer? Has he been accused?

AHMED TOBASI: Exactly that’s what I’m talking about, Amy. I had an interview with your program in December, last December, and it’s the same and even more crazy, Mustafa still in prison, no information, not allowed even for lawyers to visit or have any information. As we said before, even kids in the Freedom Theatre have been shot where they were playing.

So, for me, it’s like: Is really American people, American government know what is going on? Are they really following? We have been saying this years and years, again and again, tons, tons of reports, United Nations, tons of reports. And what? What is next? We still — I mean, that’s why Israelis going on in there. That’s why they’re getting — and I’m sure the Israelis could not do this if they do not have the green light from the U.S. government.

I am saying, from your window, from your program, I’m calling to the American people, to the American artists, to the American activists, to the American people, please, you are the one who have to move now and stop this craziness. You have to stop supporting sending bombs to Israel. Enough military support. This military support goes for killing artists, children, destroying theaters, killing people, killing women. They do nothing more than this.

And the peace that Israel looking for is not to have a peace in Palestine. It’s to control all the world. It’s to occupy the whole Middle East and use it for the political situation that U.S. should try to fight China and Iran and Russia and Palestine.

I mean, we need to do something. It’s not only Palestinian, left alone, to deal with the Israeli occupation that is defending West and Europe, U.S. It’s really in a very difficult situation. If the U.S. do not follow the time and do something before this will be out of time, I think American people have to explain to the next generation. American people have to explain to the new generation in America what they did to the Palestinians, what they did to save and to finish this genocide and war. Guys, you will have a big responsibility in the future to define what happened to the Palestinians from the American support to the Israeli military terrorism people.

AMY GOODMAN: Ahmed Tobasi, we want to thank you for being with us, artistic director at the Freedom Theatre in Jenin refugee camp, speaking to us from Jenin.

Next up, in Afghanistan, the Taliban approves a law banning women from speaking in public. Stay with us.